Fretwork frustrations..

[Dustyknees]

Hi all..Could use some advice..I have always been a 1/2 inch to 3/4 inch kind of scroller..Miniature clocks, names, toys etc. Then I found Steve's site,joined the forum, and dicovered the world of portrait patterns and fine fretwork in thin woods. I found some 1/4 inch Baltic birch at Home depot,smooth both sides and went for it..My concern is that I get an hour into a pattern,delicate leaves, flowers, birds and such and then the breaking starts. I run my saw on slow to medium speed using an FD #1 Ultra reverse blade. Works fine, then PING, off goes a flower. No problem,just trim the flower off the other side,Hey,no one knows but me,Right?..Then it happens again,can't save the pattern..Very frustrating..What am I missing? Do I need better wood? Faster speed? Your thoughts on this would be much appreciated...Jon

[Dawie]

Hi Jon,
I know the feeling. What I now normally do is:
- Stacksaw that is if I think it might sell ok. This gives support to your wood as it is thicker all round.
- If you don't want to stack saw you can put a piece of cheap wood under your actually wood to give the same support.(I use MDF)
- I cut the small pieces out first sothat everything keeps a beter grip and the lager areas last. You must remain carefull though not to put to much pressure on the already cut piece with your hand.
- Speed has not been much of an issue for me
- I'm not sure if our blade numbers correspond seeing I'm in the Netherlands and your on the other side of the ocean I mainly us fine to very fine that's nr 1-max nr 4
Hope this helps you out.
Maybe you will get even beter ideas from other scrollers.
David

[scrollgirl]

Hi, Jon:
I am sorry for your frustration!  I think we have all had that happen to us and it is really discouraging.  Don't worry, though, you have come to the right place asking for assistance.  These guys know their stuff and between everyone you should get a lot of useful advice.

My thoughts on it are perhaps you are going a little too slow on your saw.  In my experience, I have found that new scrollers (or in your case, someone trying a new technique) can be a little timid and run the saw a bit slow.  when this happens, the blade seems to 'catch' easier and pieces tend to break.  Try speeding up the saw a bit and see if that helps.  Since you are used to cutting thicker wood, you may be a little heavy handed and slowing the saw is a way to curtail you pushing as hard into the blade.  You didn't say if you were just cutting one layer, but sometimes one layer of 1/8" ply is like putting a hot knife through butter and it is more difficult to control the piece (again - especially if you are used to working a bit harder with thicker wood).  My other suggestion is to try to stack cut a couple of layers at once.  If you don't want to make two designs, use some cheap scrap wood underneath or even some cardboard like an old cereal box.  This will also help stabilize the piece for you and give some support to those delicate parts.  Finally, you may want to use a zero clearance table, or make one for your saw table.  There are several ways to do this inexpensively and quickly and it could give you the extra support you need underneath.  I have a short tutorial I wrote that I can email you if you mail me privately or you can get it for free on my site.  Otherwise I am sure there are lots of others that have some great ideas for you to try.  I hope you don't give up!  Usually is it just a little adjustment and you will be on your way to making some really cool projects - AND having fun doing so!  Let us know how you make out.

Sincerely, Sheila

[MadHatter]

hi jon,
ive always found that working with portraits i start cutting from the center of the pattern toward the outside works for me, and i always cut the smallest pieces out first, sometimes a few pieces may break or splinter and fall or even ill stray off the line but noone knows cept for me after i trim it up. i do run my saw on a slower speed and cut the small pieces more slowly. keep at it and dont give up.

[Terry Jackson]

I too tried the HD 1/4" and broke sections out of everything I tried.  The glue just does not hold everything together.  But it did work ok for jigsaw puzzles. Things that will help are very small blades, no reverse teeth, and clear packing tape for blade lubrication.  Also big blocky patterns with no adjacent cuts...

Went to actual Baltic Birch and the problem disappeared.

For a cheap solution go to a lumber supplier and start with a door skin in oak or birch.  It is only good one side, but will work if you are doing things to mount or to paint.  Door skins are 3'x7' by 1/8", 3 ply.  They run somewhere around $15 depending on wood and the seller.

Actual Baltic Birch is in sheets 5'x5' and sized in mm, starting at 3mm (about 1/8").  Cabinet makers use it for drawers.  A full sheet is in the range of $25, or $1/sf.  People who sell to scrollers, such as Sloan's and others, have 1' square and 1'x2' pieces for a few bucks. 

If you like 1/4" and can do good on only one side, there is a flooring product called ACX used as underlayment under resilient floors.  No internal voids, exterior glue, one good side.  Should be about $20 for a 4X8 sheet.

Scrollers love Baltic and Finnish Birch, but it can be hard to find outside specialty shops, but a local cabinet maker may have either scraps or a source.

Best Wishes
Terry

[patch]

the other thing you could try which I have found useful when cutting small words is get a piece of 3mm  the size of your table and drill a small hole where the blade is this will give you a small clearance around the blade and that will give you support underneath 
 

[daneklund]

One of the easiest and quickest ways on the metal table top is to use one of the little giveaway magnetic refrigerator stickers.  They are easy to cut a line into and then stay in place.  Just cut your piece over it.  Another alternative is just to use a business card over the center hole.  It will tend to move some while the magnetic card does not.

[Kepy]

I would be surprised if you got Baltic Birch at HD.  Their 1/4 Birch is only 3 ply whereas Baltic Birch is 5 ply and will but totally different.  You might try stacking the 1/4 in 3's and see if that helps.

[Russ C]

I agree , the plywood you are getting from HD is not Baltic Birch. It is a Luan Plywood 3 ply and is usually made from the cheapest wood available. In general it has voids, low quality glue and is used in floor underlayment. Althought good for drawer bottoms in cabinet making and other small jobs it is not good for fretwork. The small pieces break off like you are experiencing. You need to find real good quality Baltic Birch for fretwork. It is 5 ply no or very few voids and a better quality glue. Try Sloan's Woodshop online. I use them, there prices are resonable, quality products and great service. There are more suppliers out there.   
 

[tgaspard]

One of the things that you can try that hasn't been mentioned yet is when when you make delicate cuts, leave the drop in the piece and tape it down with clear tape that way it helps to stablilize delicate pieces without them flying off while you make your other cuts.

Tonya 

[GrayBeard]

Adding to what Sheila said, I keep a roll of plain ol' Scotch transparent tape handy and LIGHTLY apply it to the top of those delicate spots to keep that 'dropout piece' in place. If you apply too much pressure to the tape it gets aggressive and may pull the delicate piece  with it when you remove it.

~~~GrayBeard~~~

[mainberg]

I keep old playing cards on hand for zero clearance on the saw. Hold it down with packing tape.
Pat B

[Dustyknees]

Wow, I got my questions answered and much more..Ok,I built a Zero-tolerance table,thanks Sheila..I'll find some real wood. I do run real slow on the thin wood,I'll speed it up and see how it goes. I do use only the reverse blades,never tried much else,guess I should. Thanks all for knowledge you have concerning this hobby..You are a great bunch of people,and I am proud to scroll among you..I will post some cuttings as I go,show you how I'm doing! Thanks again..Jon

[cherie]

I am with everyone above and have just started to apply the piece back into the picture or portrait and then use clear tape to hold it in place.  I would never buy any kind of plywood from Lowes, Home Depot, or Meeks for that matter, unless it was used for adding on to a building or cabinetry work...ect.  I get my Baltic Birch Ply from a local home owned lumber company and have never had a problem with it.  I could never get the handle of stack cutting, so everything I do is one at a time.  The under-layment I have bought for a sign I am attempting to cut (which I have put off until I can find a place with nothing in the way) looks good and so far has been ok to cut.  Just my thoughts.

[jim stiek]

i had the same problem when I started scrolling no one told me to stackcut believe me it will give you a whole new outlook on the matter