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General Category => Brag Forum => Topic started by: thcubed on October 19, 2011, 05:42:11 am
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I consider myself to be new to wood working. I play at it more then anything. I made a windmill for a friend of mine. That friend encouraged me to make more and sell them at the local craft fair. So I did, but I didn't sell a single one. Could someone please give me advice on what I should have charged for these? They come in 3 sizes, 8', 6' and 4'. They are made of cedar with a walnut face and birch plywood petals. The walnut and birch have 2 coats of exterior protection, but the cedar is left unfinished. If there was a popularity contest, we would have won. Everyone said how beautiful they were and what a great job we did, but just walked on by. I'm so discouraged! I don't want to do this again. But I would like to know what I did wrong and why they didn't sell. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!
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Those are AWESOME!!! They would sell like crazy in my area. Try marketing them to a local feed store. I can't imagine them not selling. Many True Value and Tractor supply stores have local artist items that go well. Because they are individually owned and operated, their buyer has the say so as to what they carry along these lines. The price will depend on your area. I would think the bottom end would be about $40.00 and go up from there. I generally add up the cost of my materials and double it ( unless there were many, many hours involved like a portrait).
Please, don't get discouraged. It may have been the wrong show. Or the wrong time of year for this type of art. I know wishing wells sell poorly in the fall but I can't make them fast enough in the spring when people are doing their gardens.
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Those are great looking items. Like Julie has mentioned there is a time of the year for them. The very 1st show of the spring would be a great time for those as they just plainly shout Spring and warmer weather. You do not want to give the windmills away nor your time. There are several questions you need to ask:
1) What was the cost of the lumber?
2) What was the cost of the finishes?
3) What was the cost of transportation and storage of them?
4) How much time did it take to make them?
5) How much is your time worth?
Generally I use a 2x material cost + about 10%. The thing is YOU control the cost. Having a windmill set at say $50 and a potential customer is on the fence about buying one, dropping it to say $45, just for them, might actually close the sale.
I have not seen a neater looking windmill. Metal ones that I have seen at Harbor Freight were in the $40 for a 6 foot one. You should not give up as you have a superior item here. What you might want to do is work up its strong points and make sure that when you are chatting up the potential customer you casually mention things like it is all hand constructed, made in the USA, highly weather resistant and easy to maintain and of superior quality to anything currently on the market. Things like this while seem to be obvious to you might not be that obvious to the customer. Perhaps offer a custom color scheme for the flowers that kind of thing.The thing is not necessarily the price point at which they are priced at, it very well could be the time of the year.
Folks are busy putting away the spring and summer decorations and getting out the fall and winter ones. Like Julie suggested approach TruvValue Hardware stores perhaps Ace sometimes even Lowes and Builder Square will purchase one for perhaps their pumpkin display area. These should sell however I think that you will need the right timing for them to do so initially. The customer is a fickle person. One time they will buy the most expensive item you have and the next go around the junkiest pieces you have. It is real difficult to know what mood they are in.
Just my 2 cents
DW
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Welcome to the forum! Please go over to the introduction page and introduce yourself.
A very important consideration, Walnut and the birch plywood are not suitable for outdoor use, even if you used a marine grade topcoat. the finish will protect the wood for a season or so, but will deteriorate, unless you re-finish every year. It is very important to know what kinds of wood are suitable for outdoor use. The ceder is good. It will turn a silvery Gray over time. The birch plywood will de-laminate and the walnut will just deteriorate. There is an outdoor grade of birch plywood that is designed for outdoor use, It is called Finnish plywood, but is very expensive.
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I agree with both.
The important thing is not to be discouraged.
Greetings from Puebla, Mexico
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I agree, you need to approach a "farming or rural" community for these.
Two points...
#1 They are kind of large so transporting them could be a problem for people who do not have a truck or van.
#2 A lot of city folks do not have yards large enough for such a decoration.
Answers....
#1 Are you willing or able to deliver the windmills to a customers home?
#2 Is it possible to make them smaller? Say a two footer will fit in a car and look nice on a front porch or garden in a city area.
Just my two cents worth.
Rog
PS I built a windmill my self and it is over nine feet tall.
(http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z299/rapidroger/Finishedwindmill002.jpg)
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These are big!
You can sell them in a area where people have gardens - mostly big gardens.
AND they need to be visiting the fair by car - otherwise they won't be able to bring those home.
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I agree with all the above comments and offer this ...
Visit Nurseries and Garden Shops in your area and work with them as 're-sellers'.
And especially visit them NOW as they are getting their orders ready for the Spring selling season.
But as Dan pointed out they have to be able to withstand several seasons in order to be a good buy for the gardeners.
~~~GB~~~
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Thank you all very much for all your kind words, encouragement and help!! I guess now I know why they didn't sell. This is the very first time I've tried to sell anything at a craft fair, so I had no idea what to ask for them. I was asking $350 for the tall one and after a few days of not selling any we went down to $300. I guess that was still over priced. With the amount of work we have in them I thought that was a fair price, but I guess we need to go even lower. Do you think $200 would be too much to ask for the 8' one? I'm making them with a friend and we are both disabled so it takes us a lot longer to build then it would a healthy person. And after splitting the profit it would be less then $50 each. All that work for less then $50 seems sad to me!!
I'm going to try to address all the questions. We live in Arkansas, in a farming community where most people have several acres of land for each home. That's why we thought it would be something people would want to have. We did offer free local delivery, thinking that would help. We were told by several people that it would sell better in the Spring, so I guess we will try it again then. I did think of trying to sell them at a local nursery that sells homemade items. But they close for the winter, so I wouldn't be able to do it until Spring. I hadn't thought of a local hardware store, but that might be a good idea too. Again, I want to thank you all for your help!! I trust Steve Good and I knew his friends on this site would be a great help, with honest and fair advice. You guys are great!!
Rog, your windmill is beautiful!!! What would you price it at if you were going to try to sell it? Just wondering. I know yours is more of a true windmill, mine is just for decoration. I was asked if it was a working windmill and I laughed, saying to myself "I'm too new at woodworking to try something that complicated!!" But I did have fun making these and they really did turn out better then I thought my skill level would be.
Where is the Introduction Page? I couldn't find it.
Terry
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Where is the Introduction Page? I couldn't find it.
Terry
It's the second line on the home page between "Bulletins and new" and "General Scroll Saw Talk"
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Where is the Introduction Page? I couldn't find it.
Terry
It's the second line on the home page between "Bulletins and new" and "General Scroll Saw Talk"
I found it!! Thank you!!!
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I love your windmills they look great. Sure they wil sell on another day.
David
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Hi thcubed, I would agree with all the advice you got from these great guys. One thing I would say is, here in Scotland we have what we call WBP plywood which is water and boil proof or Marine plywood. Both are quite expensive but they last for years. Maybe Grey Beard or Dgman can help me out here, if you have such materials in the US, as I'm sure there will be but under a different name than we have in Scotland. More importantly don't get disheartened. Welcome to the family.
Roy
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Hi thcubed, I would agree with all the advice you got from these great guys. One thing I would say is, here in Scotland we have what we call WBP plywood which is water and boil proof or Marine plywood. Both are quite expensive but they last for years. Maybe Grey Beard or Dgman can help me out here, if you have such materials in the US, as I'm sure there will be but under a different name than we have in Scotland. More importantly don't get disheartened. Welcome to the family.
Roy
Yes, that is the Finnish Plywood that I spoke about above. It has waterproof glue to adhere the wood plies.
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Hi thcubed, I would agree with all the advice you got from these great guys. One thing I would say is, here in Scotland we have what we call WBP plywood which is water and boil proof or Marine plywood. Both are quite expensive but they last for years. Maybe Grey Beard or Dgman can help me out here, if you have such materials in the US, as I'm sure there will be but under a different name than we have in Scotland. More importantly don't get disheartened. Welcome to the family.
Roy
Yes, that is the Finnish Plywood that I spoke about above. It has waterproof glue to adhere the wood plies.
Does this type of wood come in 1/4" thickness? I used 1/8" on these, but I think 1/4" might make them stronger. Is it the same as MDF? Can you use a planer on MDF?
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Yes the Finnish plywood comes in 1/4". Here is a link for some 1/4" Finnish plywood. It is listed as Finland plywood: www.sloanswoodshop.com. It is not the same as MDF. Do not use MDF for outdoor project! Is is nothing but sawdust formed with binders and will fall apart when it gets wet. Also do not plane MDF. With all the glues and binders used, it will dull your planer blades in a hurry. Plane only solid woods in a planer. No plywood or any man made woods!
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thcubed,
This is actually my second windmill. The first blew over 4 times and broke (I live in Kansas and we do get winds over 60 MPH once in a while ;D ) I kept fixing it until the last time and then it was just too far gone so I built another from the ground up. This time I used 4 pieces of angle iron 24" long and drove it into the ground 12" and bolted the legs to it.
It has a crank shaft at the top and it drives a "suction rod" up and down on a 2" throw but, it doesn't really do anything as far as "work" or bringing up water.
The entire structure is made of cedar (except for the crank and bearings which are steel) The first one lasted about 3 years and this one has stood for over 1 year so far.
As far as selling it, I have never thought about it and no one has asked to buy it so I really have no idea where I would price it.
The wood is fairly inexpensive and is good with weather, the bearings were about $40.00 and I used long 5/8" bolts for the crankshaft and I guess it took me about 4 days to build the second one. (Face it, the first one took two weeks but, I had a pattern and knew more or less how to do it the second time around ;D )
I think you could use your same plan and just scale it down so that it would be easier to handle and could be either anchored or moved inside during bad weather. And you would have a saleable item. As to price, that is just something you will have to figure out with your cost and time spent as well as your area people.
Rog
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thcubed,
This is actually my second windmill. The first blew over 4 times and broke (I live in Kansas and we do get winds over 60 MPH once in a while ;D ) I kept fixing it until the last time and then it was just too far gone so I built another from the ground up. This time I used 4 pieces of angle iron 24" long and drove it into the ground 12" and bolted the legs to it.
It has a crank shaft at the top and it drives a "suction rod" up and down on a 2" throw but, it doesn't really do anything as far as "work" or bringing up water.
The entire structure is made of cedar (except for the crank and bearings which are steel) The first one lasted about 3 years and this one has stood for over 1 year so far.
As far as selling it, I have never thought about it and no one has asked to buy it so I really have no idea where I would price it.
The wood is fairly inexpensive and is good with weather, the bearings were about $40.00 and I used long 5/8" bolts for the crankshaft and I guess it took me about 4 days to build the second one. (Face it, the first one took two weeks but, I had a pattern and knew more or less how to do it the second time around ;D )
I think you could use your same plan and just scale it down so that it would be easier to handle and could be either anchored or moved inside during bad weather. And you would have a saleable item. As to price, that is just something you will have to figure out with your cost and time spent as well as your area people.
Rog
Thanks Rog!! I agree the cedar was inexpensive, the bearings were almost $40 for a set of 4 and I too used 5/8" bolt. So it sounds like we have the same invested in the material. But time, now that's a different story. It took us 5 or 6 weeks (I lost track) to make 9 of them. But like I said earlier, with us both being handicap, we move much slower and take a lot of breaks!! There were only a few days we were able to put in a fair amount of time.
I guess I will just store these until Spring and see if we can do any better!! Thank you to everyone for your encouragement and advice!! I knew this was the place to go for help on these!! I think we will continue to make them during the winter and see if we can move them. We can always drop the price if we need to.
Terry
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Everyone as given you sound advise and I cannot add to it because I live in a different country, but what I will say is, Don't be discouraged it as happened to all of us at one time or another, you just learn to pick yourself up and carry on. All the best for the future.
Marg
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Your pricing is not unreasonable. In the area I live in, you would easily get that much for them. It sounds like that nursery is just the place to market them.
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Don't give up.
My wife is a photographer & we do a Sunday market all summer.
If she had 50 cents for every nice work,she would make around $100,000.00 a summer.
I give my work away mostly sell 3-4 peaces a year.I could maybe sell more but I hate finish work.