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General Category => Ask Steve a question. => Topic started by: Chachi on December 30, 2010, 01:04:14 am
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I am new to this forum, I have been reading about all the copyrighting stuff but I am confussed, so Maybe someone can answer this for me.
Ok Question is I can't seel the Pattern correct? Ok I got that but I can cut the Pattern and seel the final product right? So why/how can this be I'm cofussed can someone help me to figure this out?
Thanks in advance
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Whoever made the pattern is the owner of the pattern. They sell that pattern to you to use. They still own the copyright to it so that is why you can't sell the pattern. You can sell finished pieces from it because you made the finished piece. If you plan to mass produce something from the pattern, it may be a good idea to ask the designer if that is ok just to be respectful. Sometimes it says on the pattern.
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When you buy a pattern, you buy the right to make and sell the finished project. The pattern copyright forbids you from selling the pattern or a modification of the pattern. Most patterns tell the copy place that you can make up to 10 copies of a pattern at a time. Mass producing or assembly line work is usually forbidden. Even some of the free patterns are copyrighted. When you make your own patterns, be careful not to use images that are copyrighted, like team logos. You can make items and give them away but be careful of selling copyrighted images. You never know who is at the sale.
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Waddawood is right. Some people make a living making patterns to sell. If you sold the pattern they would make no profit. The pattern is for you to use to make finished pieces and sell them. 8)
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How about sayings and slogans? What are your feelings on copyright then?
Where's the Beef?
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Just because you buy a pattern doesn't necessarily mean you can sell what you made from it. It all depends on what conditions the pattern maker puts on their patterns. A copyrighted pattern or picture etc it is still protected under copyright laws no matter what you turned it into.
I bought a scroll saw book with patterns and step by step instructions on how to make bowls. in that book it states you can use the patterns with no limitations except to sell the patterns. I bought another book that gives instructions on making another type of project and it has strict rules that you can only make 5 items of each project and you are not allowed to sell any of the projects made from patterns in the book. It was the authors choice how to let you use his patterns. The same things apply when you buy or get free single copyrighted patterns. It all depends on what the pattern maker is willing to let you do with the pattern. If they say for personal use only that means you can't use the pattern to make something for profit. The same thing applies to copyrighted photos.
As far as using sayings or slogans that are a trademark or copyrighted don't use them on anything you plan to sell without permission. You can use them for personal use all you want.
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I made a scrollsaw portrait of Conan O'brien and gave it as a christmas gift to a friend who just loves him. Since I made one as a gift and nothing else there really isn't a copyright violation even though I used a copyrighted photo of him. But if I was to post the pattern on here that I made from it for other people to use to cut their own that would be considered a copyright violation even though I modified the photo to make the pattern the original copyright is still in effect. Plus the pattern could possibly be used for profit by someone. Then along comes a lawyer that sees the pattern I posted and contacts Steve telling him that his site violates copyright laws and will be sued if he doesn't remove it. Even though the lawyer doesn't even officially represent Conan, they look for anything they can find to possibly file a lawsuit. Remember the person that made "it's five o'clock somewhere clocks" that got into trouble for it awhile back? That was a perfect example of what happens. I guess lawyers got tired of chasing ambulances.
Bottom line is... If your not sure if there's a possible copyright violation don't post it or sell it before you find out. It's not worth the hassle
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Thanks for the info that so cleared things up for me...
Really the 5 o'clock somewhere clocks wow that saying has been around for years. I didn't realize that was a copyrighted slogan I guess you learn something new everyday...
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The saying "it's five o'clock somewhere" is a song title. It could have been a situation like I went through with a web store banner of mine that a lawyer gave notice on. I contacted the company directly then emailed the letter I got from the lawyer along with a photo of my banner. Their legal department agreed with me that it was a stretch that my banner was a modified version of their copyright and they didn't have a problem with it. They also said the complaint didn't come from them. The interesting part was that they mentioned that lawyers will sometimes contact someone and claim there's a copyright violation in hopes that they can get the copyright holder to agree to a lawsuit after giving notice thats required by law to an offender. That doesn't mean that's always the case but it's a big pain to go through. After that I read up on everything I could about copyright laws lol.
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Dave,
Do you know of a site that lists copyrighted sayings?
Karl
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You might try copyright.com.. I don't know if they list sayings or not.
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back in some earlier postings Janet had trouble with the 5 o'clock somewhere saying. it seems
Jimmy Buffet owns the rights to this. give her a shout to find about this
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Janet doesn't come here anymore. She has taken up crocheting.
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IT must be nice to have a team of lawyers and the money to copyright a saying, Well shoot that might mean that half the things I was going to say on wood maybe copyrighted.
Thanks for the heads up I Need to research all the copyrighted sayings now.
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I just found this and I think it will shed alot of light on this subject I know it did for me.
It was posted by a Lawyer in Califonia.
I don?t understand your question. What do you mean you ?believe? that you have some ?original sayings.??
Because you only ?believe? it, I?m going to assume that you were not the one who said these ?sayings.? In that case, it doesn?t matter whether they are ?original? ? whatever that means ? because they are not ?original? from you. You do not own, therefore,[and can never own] a copyright in any of the sayings.
A ?saying? is either a stand-alone quote, a poem, or a small [repeat small] portion of another literary work. Each of these are, in copyright lingo, ?short phrases.?
The threshold issue is whether copyright attaches to any of the short phrases you want to reproduce. The starting point when thinking through that question is the rule that short phrases are NOT copyrightable. See 37 C.F.R. section 202.1 at http://tinyurl.com/clr6bf and http://tinyurl.com/dzza5s . Indeed, in the context of news organizations reporting facts, courts have held that entire paragraphs are sometimes not copyrightable.
Courts have applied this rule quite often. As a result, none of the following phrases are copyrightable:
?Listen Up, It?s More Than Talk, It?s Feeling?
?You Got The Right One, Uh-Huh?
?Protecting The Earth From The Scum Of The Universe"
?You?ve got to stand for something or you?ll fall for anything?
?Eat Your Art Out, Chicago?
"Priority Message: Contents Require Immediate Attention."
However, courts sometimes cite a different rule: that is, when a single line of a larger copyrighted work (such as a movie or poem) is copied by an alleged infringer, the test for copyright infringement is whether "the work is recognizable by an ordinary observer as having been taken from the copyrighted source."
If so, then the court will often conclude that copying that one particular sentence is an infringement of the larger work ? that is, the movie or poem. This rule is not, however, often applied. Nonetheless, if a phrase has become so well known that it may be considered "the heart" of a copyrightable work -- e.g. "ET phone home" -- then the court will find a way to preclude anyone other than the copyright owner from exploiting the phrase. Especially for commercial purposes such as in your planned book or poster.
So ... as far as copyright law goes, you're on safe ground publishing a book of short phrases so long as (1) each phrase stands alone or is only a very small portion of a larger work, (2) each short phrase is not ?the heart? of a larger work, and (3) the phrases are not attributable solely to one living person [or dead for less than 70 years].
Your copyright in such a book attaches ONLY to the sum of its name, the particular sequence of the phrases, and any creative designs and extraneous material that you add. You do NOT own any copyright interest in any of the short phrases.
As for creating posters, Attorney Koslyn is certainly correct that if you put a short phrase on a poster that does NOT give you a copyright interest in the short phrase. Attorney Ross is also correct that your copyright in the poster attaches ONLY to the other design features of the poster [which he?s listed in his response] and not the short phrase.
You need to speak with a copyright attorney before you publish the book or sell a poster. Good luck.
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So...when I say to my S.O...."Frankly my dear, I don't give a dam!" am I violating a copyright?
~~~GB~~~
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No GB, but you can't make a pattern of that saying and sell the product for a profit.
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I can until I get 'caught'!
~~~GB~~~
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It looks like "your give a damn is busted!" :)
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Watch it Dave that belongs to Jo dee Messina.....lol
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Interesting topic. I followed up a few places and came up with this:
http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ34.pdf
Interesting article.
Karl
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Yes it is Karl... It leaves it open to interpretation. That could be why lawyers are so eager to persue possible violators.
@Chachi Yes it does but I could always change "Damn" to something else lol
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:D That is so true.... If you ask me it's all a bunch of BULL**** I don't belive that you should be able to copyright something like that but they do and it's just my 25 cents worth.
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It is not worth the hassle, so I just don't make copyrighted stuff to sell. 8)
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That's very understandable but how do you know what is and isn't, like I always thought that anyone could do it's 5 o'clock somewhere but I have come to find out you can't so how do you know?
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If theres something that you want to use but you are unsure of do a google search :)
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Ahhh ok I will keep that in mind thanks for the info.
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Sooo..." Go ahead, make my day" is questionable..???
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Yeah, That one is a no brainer!
Welcome to the forum by the way!
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I need to pick this one up again.
I need to make sure I understand this correctly.
I made a pattern out of a photo, changing it pretty much to get a 2D-Pattern in gray/white with black lines. So there is no color in it, no special look, just the pure form.
But the pattern contained the form of a NFL-logo.
Is this copyright? I mean, is even this outlined form a copyright-thing?
I have been searching the web, found various patterns, stencils, forms of recognizable products or trademarks.
Even Steve has posted patterns of Olympic rings, NHL-Logo, classic pictures of Elvis and Michael Jackson evolved to patterns.
How is this meant to be understood? How much do I need to change to get it being "my pattern" ?
regards
Torsten
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maybe this helps...... ?
http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/CopyrightLaw/Patterns.shtml
fair dealing, what can I use:
http://www.copyright.org.au/admin/cms-acc1/_images/8452777034d001ee11eb7c.pdf
infringement, what can i do?
http://www.copyright.org.au/admin/cms-acc1/_images/6057797724c8dcda750c39.pdf
Do I need permission to make things from items containing copyright material?
30/5/2009
You generally do not need permission if you do not copy ? for example, if you make a collage from photographs cut from magazines, or if you mount postcards on trays or teapot stands, you will not need permission from the copyright owner. Similarly, you do not need copyright permission to make things from fabric which contains pictures or designs (for example, cloth with Harry Potter printed on it).
You may, however, need permission if you subsequently wish to photograph or sketch the craft item containing the image (for example, in a catalogue). Generally, you will need permission from any copyright owner whose work you wish to substantially reproduce in the photo or sketch. In some commercial contexts, you may also need advice from a solicitor in private practice as to whether your use of images or logos gives rise to issues under other areas of law.
Amount and substantiality:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
have to surch som more on:
copyright exceptio artis
a long way to go..... ;D
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hmm, this is mostly about Australian right regarding lyrics and stuff like that.
I found some too:
american copyright on emblems @ wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyright_on_emblems)
american copyrights on logos @ wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Logos)
regards
Torsten
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How can we do anything in this Hobby without breaking any copyright laws?
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While many areas are confusing or gray... the one area that is clear is that the NFL, Disney, NCAA, etc. own copyrights to their team logos and characters and nobody is ever allowed to sell patterns or projects that contain those unless they have a licensing agreement or other permission.
In general, other owners of other copyrights feel the same way... they own what they own and it is their right to make money from it and nobody else has the right to make money from it... unless they agree to it.
Even if the owner doesn't make money from it... posts their pattern on the internet, for example, it STILL is their pattern and nobody has the right to pretend they own it and thus cannot sell it... and they still have the right to dicatate whether projects cut from it can be sold or not (eg. for 'personal use only' means you can make the project for yourself but cannot freely give cut projects away... this isn't about money but about controlling the use of what they own).
Spence
Spence