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General Category => General Scroll Saw Talk => Topic started by: northie66 on October 09, 2010, 05:13:47 pm
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There may be another post in here about this, but if it is I can't find it.
Am I the only one that doesn't understand the post? What is it we are posting that we shouldn't? Certain patterns? Pictures of stuff that we did that is copyright? I don't get it.
Maybe I'm wrong but here's my plan: Continue to post whatever I want and wait to be told to take it off. I don't know what else to do... besides, never post any pictures... which is what I think some people will do.
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Well I posted a picture of a pattern I laid out on some baltic berch (wood and all) and that was removed. It was a free pattern from one of the Scroll Saw mags and it was removed. So if I cant post that, how can I post a picture when its done, because that would be about the same thing?
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Hi Janet, sorry for the confusion. I'll try to do better here. It's okay to post pictures of finished projects. It's usually okay to post a pattern for a project if you designed the pattern. If you designed the pattern and it contains trademarked images then you cannot upload it.
If anyone posts a pattern that does not belong to them that is bad. It does not matter if the pattern was free or commercial. It belongs to someone else and they have the right to control where it is delivered. I have to error on the side of caution here and will remove anything that might be considered a copyright violation.
I know you mean well but it is not okay to post what ever you want and just have it removed. You have never posted anything wrong so this is not directed at you personally. There are serious liability consequences on me to make sure everyone understands what they can and cannot upload. I have been contacted by lawyers. Sites like mine are watched. They do not have a sense of humor.
If it continues to happen I only have two choices. Disable all file uploads or take the forum down. I don't want to do either so it's best if I can get everyone to understand what they can and cannot do. Anything I say about this sounds harsh and I hate that but I have no choice but to be very serious about this subject.
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Steve - I was thinking of my "It's 5 O'clock Somewhere" thing I designed the pattern and posted the picture of the finished project. I tried to sell it on my etsy store and was told that the words are copyright. So I guess this would be a no-no to post on your site also?
OK, I didn't mean to sound arrogant in my post. I hope it wasn't taken that way. I think I understand better now and I will do my best to obide by your rules. I won't knowingly post anything I shouldn't... that's for sure. I know it's not your fault but I think it's kind of sad that a lot of people will now refrain from posting pictures.
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I'll say it again. To many rules. No ones fault. It's were we have ended up in this world. "To be Politically Correct, we must be Correct Politically"! Dave >:(
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Another thing I am getting out of all this discussion is that I need to keep better track of the patterns I download, where I got them and the designer's name!
That way I can cut a project, finish it and photograph it. Then I should be able to post the photo here (using a low resolution and a slightly skewed format) and use a 'disclaimer' such as ...
"XYZ Project, cut from a pattern by "Joe Schklumpf"
Does this sound like it will work and avoid any legal entanglements?
Dam I hate lawyers! (with the possible exception of those who are 'scrollers')
~~~GB~~~
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The books I have with patterns in states I can cut and sell any pattern in the book but can not sell the pattern, if I post it on this forum the person who down loads it does not know that and may sell them. if some one asks me for a pattern I will e-mail but not post, and I have had many requests
Jimbo
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Wait What..... "It's 5 O'clock Somewhere" is copyrighted? :o
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When I make a project that I am going to sell at a craft show or a consignment shop, I always put a little paper with the project that says Pattern Designed By: (Designer). We have to try and put ourselves in Steves position, he is the one going to get in trouble for the copyright infringement. We all need to pay better attention to what we post, losing this forum is the last thing I think any of us want, and I know Steve feels the same way. When I post a project I try to always post, this is a project I cut from one of (whoever the Designer may be patterns). I know I do not understand the copyright laws very well, what I have never understood is when I buy a book or a magazine and it says I can make three copies of the pattern to make projects for personal use, does that mean I can't sell any of them or can I sell only three of that project. Could someone please explain this. Can I sell more than three projects or is that violating copyright. I am as confused as everyone else.
Mark
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Thank you Mark, that was the exact question I wanted to ask. If a pattern or book says,"The patterns contain herein are copyrighted by the authors. Readers may make copies of these patterns for personal use". Of course I know I can't sell or even give away the patterns BUT can I make as many of the finished piece as I want and sell those finished pieces?? If not.....a lot of us are in deep doo doo.
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This is what I get from this whole thing:
1) You cannot post an image of a pattern unless you: a) own it or: b) have permission of the designer.
2) You can post an image of your finished item as long as you do not do so in such a way as the image could result in the copying of the image and be able to produce another pattern from it.
3) You can make any pattern and any image for your own personal use without recourse.
4) You cannot make and sell an item derived from a copyrighted image without getting explicit permission from the person, persons, company, University, etc. (Usually this is a contract between you and the same above.)
5) For the forum I'd say: If in doubt, leave it out. IMHO
I am not a lawyer, but these seem logical to me.
Does this sound about right Steve?
Karl
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The notation in the magazines and books tell the professional copy services that you can make 10 copies for personal use. You can make as many projects you want from copies with the exception of mass production. You are restricted from making more than ten copies at a time so you are not selling the patterns. You will notice in the catalogs and on websites of pattern makers that their photos are slightly offset. In otherwords, the item is tilted for the purpose of taking the picture. This keeps you from just printing the picture and blowing it up to make your own pattern.
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Julief pretty well posted it for you Mark and Judy. "The notation in the magazines and books tell the professional copy services that you can make 10 copies for personal use. You can make as many projects you want from copies with the exception of mass production. You are restricted from making more than ten copies at a time so you are not selling the patterns." 8)
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@KarlB, et al.
3) You can make any pattern and any image for your own personal use without recourse.
No this is not accurate. You may not even design your own pattern for personal use of a copyrighted image. If you know an item is copyrighted you are not allowed to make a pattern of the image unless you contact the copyright holder and gain permission. This is why you cannot post patterns of NFL logos, University logos, Disney patterns etc.
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I have an idea... why don't we just stop posting pictures on this forum. If we want someone to see a picture, put it on photobucket or something and post the link. Would that then take the problem away from Steve?
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I disagree, Janet. I love to see the pictures that everyone posts. We just need to use some common sense. If you know it is something that might raise an eyebrow - don't do it. I have made several items with both Dallas Cowboy and UT type logos as gifts. Disney stuff as well. Yes, I made the patterns by tracing the logos. I am very careful about selling this type of item. You never know who is going to show up at a craft fair.
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Mike,
That's kinda what I was saying in #4, but you cleared it up better. Although if I made a logo from a university and put it on my wall only, I doubt there would be any problem. Against the law though? Possibly.
It is a shame this discussion is being had as most people have good intentions and don't wish to deprive designers of their income. Most people will try to be honest, although some ruin it for others. :(
Karl
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It is a shame this discussion is being had as most people have good intentions and don't wish to deprive designers of their income. Most people will try to be honest, although some ruin it for others.
I agree. Most of it is just not understanding, I'm certain there is no ill will intended. Every scrolling forum out there has this ongoing discussion. It is the number one reason for moderators on these forums (because of liability to the forum hosts). Number 2 is spammers and number 3 is off topic &/or inappropriate content postings.
Bottom line is.
If you did not create a pattern do not post/trade, give or sell the pattern. Pretty basic.
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not to stray from the topic but "it's 5 o'clock somewhere" must have had a copywriter I am quite familiar with - my mother - she used to say it over 40 yrs. ago and it wasn't because that was when she got off work!! copywrited? really??
Attn lawyers: this is in general conversation and I do not expect to receive money for the verbalization of this "possibly copywrited" saying (yeah I know copywrited isn't a word)
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I guess the thing I was trying to say was that sometimes the WORDS have a copyright and it doesn't matter what design you put them in. I just had the words "It's 5 oclock somewhere" in wood... no margarita drink design... no palm tree... and I got a lawyer email.
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can search for copyrights at this site, if anyone is curious:
http://www.copyright.gov/
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I think that I will copywrite my name. Then if I ever run to someone with exactly the same name, I can sue their parents! ;D
Does "Throckmorton S, Gildersleeve" ring a bell to anyone?
Rog
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If you could copyright words you would not be able to rite anything, and when you buy a book do they think you are going to make a couple of patterns and throw it away, if you can not sell the patterns out of a book can you sell the book? if not why are there so many second hand books for sale, and what what is to stop me from giving a pattern away from out of the book, it states you must not sell the patterns nothing about giving them away
Jimbo
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Can you believe this is in the FAQs at the www.copyright.gov site:
How do I protect my sighting of Elvis?
Copyright law does not protect sightings. However, copyright law will protect your photo (or other depiction) of your sighting of Elvis.
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Hey Rog....
Close but no CI:GAR!
The Great Gildersleeve (1941?1957), initially written by Leonard Lewis Levinson,[2] was one of broadcast history's earliest spin-off programs. Built around Throckmorton Philharmonic Gildersleeve, a character who had been a staple on the classic radio situation comedy Fibber McGee and Molly, first Introduced to FMAM on 10/3/39 ep #216. The Great Gildersleeve enjoyed its greatest success in the 1940s. Actor Harold Peary played the character during its transition from the parent show into the spin-off and later in a quartet of feature films released at the height of the show's popularity.
Middle initial was P.
~~~GB~~~
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i havent sighted elvis, but i did have a waldo sighting ;D
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Hey MadHatter, Where? Where's waldo? ::)
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It is amazing how posts go off on ther own. From Steve's Copyright message to sightings of The King Elvis, some old fart named Gildersleeve, and now where is some dork named Waldo. LOL ::)
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It keeps things interesting doesn't it?
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Well, the latest news I heard was that Elvis is coming back from the dead and doing a concert with Gildersleeve and Waldo as back up singers. WHAT??? It could hapen.
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If Elvis comes back to life is he still allowed to call himself Elvis, or is that name copyrighted?
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Hahaha! Good one Bill!
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You can copyright just about anything. Micheal Buffer snapped up "let's get ready to RUMBLE!" Somebody copyrighted "Sh*t happens". I'm thinking of jumpin on "it is what it is" "I'm just sayin..." and "BOOOYAHHH".
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This reminds me of a problem I ran into a few years back. I had a fire truck in the shop. I needed information, something on the engine, I don't remember. So I call a Sales/Mantenance Shop in Indy, and asked for the info. This guy that was in charge told me, "I'm sorry. But if you are not a factory trained tech, we can't give you this info"..............WHAT. You have got to be kidding me! We spent almost a million dollars on this truck, and you don't have to give me the info I need to get it back in service. NO he replied, and hung up. Well that set me off. I started checking around, and found out there is a bill pending in Legislation call "Right To Repair Act". It's been stalled for a few years now. It comes to find out that the big auto manufactors do not want you working on your own vehicles. Don't want you buying shop manuals, even parts. Can you imagine the small shop that you take your car, gone, not factory trained. My argument is this. If you buy something, that should make it yours. You should be able to do with it, whatever you please. I just can't believe somebody would sell their patterns, knowing somebody, paid good money, would labor a lot of hours, might..... just might, want to show it off! Dave >:( P.S. THIS IS JUST MY OPINION!
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It's a conspiracy!
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Hey Dave, I looked under the hood of my wife's new Nissan Murano, I can't even see anything that looks like spark plugs or spark plug wires. They make cars so we can't work on them!
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I agree Dave, If you are willing to try and work on them you should be able to, but read the fine print sometimes if you attempt repairs it can void the warranty, I learned the hard way. I wonder if they still even sell Chilton's auto manuals, I used to buy one for whatever vehicle I currently owned, although I am not sure if you could get one for a firetruck. Yes, where have the times went when we could work on most vehicles, spark plugs, carburetors, distributor caps.
Mark
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The comment above, if you buy it, it's yours. For the longest time, it was "illegal" to modify or unlock "your" I-product (Iphone) a new "law" just passed that says it's now legal. If you are into computers, and other electronic stuff, have a look at Hack-A-Day, those folks do some cool stuff with what the "own". Two other words that ring out in Geek world - "Open Source".
Steven