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General Category => General Scroll Saw Talk => Topic started by: kkartz1 on October 23, 2013, 03:56:56 pm

Title: Newbie advice please
Post by: kkartz1 on October 23, 2013, 03:56:56 pm
Well, Ive started scrolling with my Hegner and went straight into some Xmas tree patterns with some internal work. I`m using some elm which i felled around 3 years ago and have stored since then. I have cut it into squares 120 x 120 x 15 and am using some Flying Dutchman blades.
Initially I think my blade tension was a bit slack as I was concerned about snapping blades but I have got a bit braver and now I think I have it sorted. After watching some of the experts on You Tube, I am in awe with how fast they can turn the wood and keep a nice smooth corner with seemingly no effort. I am cutting into a corner, backing out to make a large radius and then going in from the other side to make the corner nice and square. I am hoping with more practice I can master this control. Another problem I have is that the wood `chatters` sometimes and I have to hold it down with quite a lot of pressure. I have now slowed my cutting right down and am taking it far slower which seems to help. I dont have an arm fitted to hold the work down and would like to know peoples opinions on these. I have a variable speed saw and would welcome any advice on blade speed. I have tried through a range of 400 upto 1200. Around 1000 seems about right but am not really sure.
I have produced two items now and having really good fun...oh and I have only broken one blade so far :-)
Title: Re: Newbie advice please
Post by: EIEIO on October 23, 2013, 04:16:17 pm
Most people do not use a hold-down.

Chatter - Are you sure your blade is in installed in the right direction (cutting on the down stroke)? If it's reversed, it pulls the wood up, you hand pushes it back down, and you get chatter.

Practice makes the difference in scrolling. Some of the on-line guys are super good. Meantime, backing out and coming around to make a sharp corner is OK.
Title: Re: Newbie advice please
Post by: kkartz1 on October 23, 2013, 04:32:09 pm
Yes, I am using the FD blades and they have a kink which I have been told means it is the top. I think it is possibly due to my enthusiasm and has got better now that I have slowed my speed. I have heard that some types of timber and the grain are more challenging than others.
Title: Re: Newbie advice please
Post by: GrayBeard on October 23, 2013, 05:52:13 pm
The harder the wood and the tighter the grain it will be more challenging to cut. Cutting with the grain is different from cutting across the grain and diagonal to the grain is again a different matter.

Hold down...NO! they just get in the way every time you have to move the blade to another location.

I think you will find that slower speeds will tend to cause you more chatter than faster.
Remember what we all say constantly..."Let the blade do the work!"

My mantra..."Fast blade speed, LOTS of tension and SLOOOOOW feed rate"! The faster your blade is travelling it is cutting constantly so all you have to do is guide the wood into the teeth and let them work.

Now practice, practice, practice and keep asking questions.
Virtually every person on this forum is here to both Learn & TEACH....

~~~GB~~~
Title: Re: Newbie advice please
Post by: Billy in Va on October 23, 2013, 07:11:46 pm
I use a high tension and a fairly high speed.  I find I get much better conrol with that combo. One of the hardest things for me to learn was that just because the speed is high, I do not need to cut faster. Let the blade do the work.
Title: Re: Newbie advice please
Post by: PaPa50707 on October 23, 2013, 07:40:12 pm
What's a holddown? ;D ;D Seriously, your speed usually depends on the thickness of your wood. But if you are comfortable at 1000 rpm stick with it.
Title: Re: Newbie advice please
Post by: wombatie on October 24, 2013, 01:16:47 am
Don't use a hold down they are just a pain in the rear end.  I think with time you will find a speed that you are comfortable with and you will stick to it but as long as you have the blade in tight and you have the right blade for the right job, it is just practice, practice, practice.

Marg
Title: Re: Newbie advice please
Post by: julief on October 24, 2013, 07:08:48 am
The hold down is a waste of metal.  They get in your way and only do a marginal job of holding anything.  It's a safety thing required by law but practically useless.  The more you scroll, the more you get used to keeping pressure on your wood to prevent the chatter.  You always want good tension on the blade.  Without it, you blade will bend and wander.  Speed is a personal preference.  Just because you've got the RPM up, does not mean you have to cut fast.  Feed the wood in slowly and let the blade do the work.  Practice, practice, practice.  Have fun.
Title: Re: Newbie advice please
Post by: PigsFly on October 24, 2013, 08:42:35 am
I agree with the above comments.  Do not use the hold down and with the right blade, speed, and feed rate you should be able to cut any wood with minimal hold down pressure from your hands.  It obviously will vary between types of wood and thickness of wood so it just takes experimenting.  I do 3/4 to 5/4 wood and find the only problem I have with "chatter" is if the wood is even just a little cupped or warped.
Title: Re: Newbie advice please
Post by: Shogun on October 24, 2013, 09:01:56 am
I don't use a hold down either. As far as FD blades, I only use FD, how ever not all of them have the dimple at the top so you may want to double check which type you have and that the teeth are pointing down.
Title: Re: Newbie advice please
Post by: Al W on October 24, 2013, 10:25:37 am
It would repetitive to say it all again - but let the blade do the work, guide your project into the blade Slowly, and most of all - ENJOY.

Al
Title: Re: Newbie advice please
Post by: kkartz1 on October 24, 2013, 03:36:47 pm
Thanks for the advice ladies and gents. All points are noted and I will heed the advice. No hold downs and lots of practice :-) If only work didnt get in the way of my scrolling time :-(
Title: Re: Newbie advice please
Post by: puzzlemaker on October 24, 2013, 03:51:03 pm
I agree with ALL of the above comments. I would check the direction of the blade, though. I only get appreciable chatter when I mistakenly but the blade in upside down. You will get a little chatter with a reverse tooth blade. No hold down!
Pat
Title: Re: Newbie advice please
Post by: king310 on October 24, 2013, 06:55:09 pm
loose the hold down!!! I just say tension is important. There are time I'm so intense I bite my tongue. ;D

Speed N feed will be determined by your comfort, thickness of product, type of material and size of blade, and last the detail of the pattern you are cutting. There will be many of those moments when you go OOPPPSS! @#$$#$$%#$%&&*($%
Title: Re: Newbie advice please
Post by: Rapid Roger on October 24, 2013, 10:00:53 pm
When you get frustrated   >:( (and we all do) stop, take a deep breath, tell your self "This is not rocket science" get a firm (not tight) grip on the wood, and slowly run the pattern line into the front of the blade watching it disappear and become a kerf cut.  :o  Next thing you know you'll tell yourself "This is FUN!"  ;) :D ;D

Rog
Title: Re: Newbie advice please
Post by: Becky on October 26, 2013, 12:07:58 am
You just can't practice too much.  Every project I make is practice for a future project.  That's where the smooth turns and sharp corners come from.  I remember lots of chatter early on until I learned (though practice) the basics of controlling the wood.  Without the hold down (which I never used either) you DO have to hold it down yourself.  It'll become second nature before too long. 

If no one has told you this one, be sure and grab a can of paste wax and wax up your table.  It makes a world of difference in the ease of turning and moving the wood.

Just keep at it and you will become amazed at your your increasing skill.  So will your friends and family.   :)
Title: Re: Newbie advice please
Post by: kkartz1 on October 26, 2013, 05:09:35 am
Paste wax...I like your thinking. Can you recommend anything? As I am in the UK, some of the trade names for things are totally different. It sometimes seems that people over the pond and talking a different language :-)
Title: Re: Newbie advice please
Post by: Becky on October 27, 2013, 12:33:23 am
Just get the cheapest stuff they have at the hardware or grocery store.  I use Johnson's but I don't know if they sell it in the UK.  But this is the stuff you wax floors with.  Nothing fancy.  Just check the ingredients and make sure it doesn't contain silicon which, I am told, will interfere with the finishing process on your project. 

Amazon UK carries a product called Briwax.  It looks like that would do.  Here's a link:  http://www.amazon.co.uk/Briwax-400g-Wax-Polish-Clear/dp/B000TAR2Q6/ref=sr_1_4/277-2456183-8753941?ie=UTF8&qid=1382847988&sr=8-4&keywords=paste+wax (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Briwax-400g-Wax-Polish-Clear/dp/B000TAR2Q6/ref=sr_1_4/277-2456183-8753941?ie=UTF8&qid=1382847988&sr=8-4&keywords=paste+wax)

I find waxing the table about once a month keeps things moving smoothly.
Title: Re: Newbie advice please
Post by: kkartz1 on October 27, 2013, 05:37:04 am
Thx Becky.
Ive been told that Liberon lubricating wax is awesome and hopefully they stock in just down the road from me. If not I will use that stuff. I picked up all sorts of great timber from a friendly saw mill yesterday so will be having a scrolling blitz this week....if work allows :-)
Title: Re: Newbie advice please
Post by: Malistar22 on December 31, 2013, 10:44:17 am
Oh man, I just started scrolling too and reading that all you vets got rid of your hold down is so reassuring! I hate it! I have a Dewalt 40-560 and the hold down just gets in the way of everything. I have been loath to remove it because the air nozzle is attached to it and I didn't want to lose that too. But I think when I get home today, I'm going to remove it anyway and find a way to reattach the air nozzle. Seriously, I think I snapped a lot of blades because I couldn't get the blade out of the piece without bending it due to the hold down in my way.

And danke on the tip for using wax! Definitely going to give that a go to!