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General Category => General Scroll Saw Talk => Topic started by: heiko rettberg on November 04, 2012, 07:46:15 am
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Hi Guys, I found this in the net http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP6HcNi7GsQ this scrollsaw don't need twister blades, nether the less it can saw in all directions. I can't find the price for it. The internet site is Harthie.de is a German site but you can switch to translate the site in english. What du you think of it?
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From the Harthie site:
Harthie reinvented the scroll saw. During the working operation, the blade shaft of the Harthie scroll saw is endlessly rotatable through 360 degrees with only three fingers and movable in a diameter of 35 mm from the center. With this innovation, our scroll saw makes possible cuts in every direction without the need to move the workpiece. This leads to a never known before precision and sensitivity in sawing. There is no longer a limitation given by the longitudinal passage and during the construction of the scroll saw, special attention was applied to a very high sawing stroke of up to 40 mm. This results in a prevention of heat accumulation, a better utilization of the saw blade teeth and a higher cutting speed with less rpm (revolutions per minute).
http://www.harthie.de/en/
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That is a totally neat idea. I just wonder about the mechanics of how it works. Does the direction of force on the workpiece rotate the blade to change the direction? I like the idea of suction being used to remove some of the dust from the table. I'd like to learn a little more about it.
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Very clever and likely very expensive.
While watching the video I noted that at no time did the operator make a SQUARE sharp corner!
Can it make square corners?
~~~GB~~~
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Very neat.... But I think I would practice and learn how to use spiral blades before investing in something like this.
It is a very good concept.
Jim. . .
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I think its Amazing.... Didn't see the guys/gals hands move at all. What makes the way I seen it the blade following the line so good???? And looked like that blade was at least a #7.... Can anyone explain how it works? Duh! Danny :+}
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I would think it is very expensive and after looking at the video and reading the specs it seems like you can rotate the blade using 3 fingers on either hand.
I sent them an e-mail asking about the price, when I get a response I will post it.
Mike
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I sent them an email 5 days ago and have not heard from them yet.
I emailed Voldker Arnold and he could not tell anything about it.
Called the company who makes my blades and was told that they had bought some blades.
However they could not tell me anything about that saw.
It looks great but I think I stay with a regular saw. Like some said "how about cutting
square corners."
FD Mike
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I like the no need to blow dust away..... suction from below table looks like with all the holes.
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I Second THAT Melster.... Wow! With SUCTION below wouldn't that be the Greatest?
This Scrollsaw really has me WONDERING. Looking forward to info. on this.... :+}
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The way I read it, it seems that you have one hand below the table to turn the blade (with three fingers) and one hand controlling the wood and feeding it into the blade. Sounds kinda like rubbing your belly and patting your head at the same time to me. :o It must be a lot easier to do than it seems.
The one thing I noticed was that it took a tool (looked like a nut driver) to change blades but, I'm sure that it could be replaced with a knob for just finger use. ;)
Another thing I would like to see was the whole saw as it was being used. I haven't figured out the blade tension procedure yet. ::) ???
I really expected that it would require special blades considering the adjustable stroke feature but, they said that it used standard (5") blades. ;)
Rog
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The newer Hegher saws have a dust collecting under the table.
FD Mike
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Did you notice that they didn't have a pattern to follow? How difficult will it be to follow a pattern?
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Did you notice that they didn't have a pattern to follow? How difficult will it be to follow a pattern?
I saw a pattern. If you go to their website and view the videos there, you can see the patterns better.
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I looked all over the Internet last night, and I have not found anything that gives a clue to the price. The blade was certainly following the pattern lines really well, but how much practice did that take. I think the video could have shown us a lot more of the actual machine. Also it weighs 40kg, about 85pounds, so it Is large, heavy and I guess expensive.
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My biggest concern would be the size of the blade hole. I cut things smaller that that hole was.
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I didn't notice any way to tilt the table. Anyone see something I missed?
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This saw has been talked about on a UK forum and it's said to retail at 2,200 euros approx $2800.
here's a link to the thread. http://thewoodhaven.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2641
happy scrolling
Steve
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I found a plan to build this Scrollsaw, but only in german. But pictures say more then words ;) . Of one foto you see the gear wherewith you can turn the blade.
http://www.1-2-do.com/de/projekt/Projekt-Dekupiersaege/bauanleitung/4808/
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I think it's not that expensive. no much moving parts. no quick release, now variable speed.
as a look at it the top part is a big spring that will pull up the saw, on the bottom is the engine pulling.
Am I right?
I see the advantage of rotating the saw, but I wonder if this is a accurate saw.
when I see the blade "idle" on the video, I mean in a big hole not touching the wood, it's "jumping/shaking" around.
guess if blade is a #2/0 or #1 it might break easily.
so, a great saw looking at it, but still a bit skeptic.
would love to read user experience stories!
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Hey Community, more information about this saw:
a new video (german): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e-5471j2WE&feature=player_embedded#at=279
http://www.harthie.de/images/stories/grafiken/productdiscription-Hartie.pdf
Any questions? I will try to answer...!
Greetings,
Marco Schulz
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That's very interesting. It looks like a totally different skill set to master. That guy in the video sure is good at it though.
Lots of questions, Marco! Thanks for your offer to answet them. Many are already asked in earlier posts and I am sure others will chime in with still more?
Is it a different skill set? Was the scroller in the video a scroller for many years before using this machine and how long did it take him to become proficient at using this one?
Do you have to use a large blade like the one used in the video? Will smaller blades break because of all the movement?
What is the maximum depth of the cut? I don't speak German but I saw a "50mm" in one of the videos. With all that open sapace up top, does the saw still only cut to a maximum of 2 inches?
Does the saw have variable speed?
Why the heck does it still require a separate tool for reattaching the blade between fret cuts?
Where is the saw available for sale? Will your representative be working the show circuit in the US so people can see it in action?
I am sure I will think of others but that's a start.
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Wow, if the price is right, I think I'll be in love.
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Here's a site you all might be interested in on the saw. all you have to do is copy and paste this site.
www.harthie.de/en/die-harthie-feinschnittsaege
gene
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Hi again!
I will try to answer your questions, but before some background information:
The enthusiasm for the material wood existed in the family for a very long time. In wood processing, we can look back on a family tradition of more than 80 years. We have always looked for ways and solutions to produce faster and better and so we have gained experiences with scroll saws. We realized that conventional scroll saws are subject to certain restrictions and limitations, which i would like to explain to you briefly.
Initial situation and problems with conventional scroll saws
All previously available scroll saws share almost the same functional principle. What has proved to be problematic is that the manual rotation of the workpiece, especially for fine internal cuttings, takes a lot of time and can be very complicated and inaccurate. Also restricted is the length (and width) of the workpiece as it is limited to a certain width, predetermined by the construction of the longitudinal passage. In case of a wider workpiece, the rotating workpiece gets blocked by the operator or the machine?s saw arm or gallow. Another construction wise problem of conventional scroll saws is the short customary stroke length. With a length of, for example, 12 mm and a material thickness of 15 mm, a few saw blade teeth never leave the material and the produced sawdust cannot be transported away from the material. The sawdust remains in the material, produces a heat accumulation and forces the blade out of the shaft. The result are crooked, unclean cuts and quickly torn saw blades!
The invention of the Harthie
Mister Hartmann experienced these problems in his own production process and he needed a solution. He followed his idea that the saw blade itself should rotate, not the workpiece. The first attempts were hard and tiresome, but finally he invented a ?with one hand endlessly rotatable and from the center movable blade shaft?. The basis for the new saw was created. After four further years of development and countless tests, we can now proudly present the well-developed, sophisticated result, the Harthie E-300 scoll saw, which solves all the problems mentioned above! ;)
The Harthie
During the working operation, the blade shaft of the Harthie scroll saw is endlessly rotatable through 360 degrees with only three fingers and movable in a diameter of 35 mm from the center. With this innovation, our scroll saw makes possible cuts in every direction without the need to move the workpiece. This leads to a never known before precision and sensitivity in sawing. There is no longer a limitation given by the longitudinal passage and during the construction of the scroll saw, special attention was applied to a very high sawing stroke of up to 40 mm. This results in a prevention of heat accumulation, a better utilization of the saw blade teeth and a higher cutting speed with less rpm (revolutions per minute), but reaches a maximum cutting speed of 66 cm per second!
1000 (rpm) x 40mm (stroke) / 60 (seconds) = 66 cm per second
while conventional scroll saws with the same rpm and a stroke of 20mm on average only reach half this speed (33 cm per second)!
Here the answer to your questions:
Is it a different skill set?
Yes it is!
Was the scroller in the video a scroller for many years before using this machine and how long did it take him to become proficient at using this one?
The scroller in the video was a scroller for many years before using/ inventing this machine! In our experience, it only takes a few moments for the new principle has been understood.
But before you become proficient at using this machine you will need some more hours of work!
It is quite easier to proficient the new technique for People who never worked before with conventional scroll saws but you will learn it! ;)
Do you have to use a large blade like the one used in the video? Will smaller blades break because of all the movement?
NO! You are able to use the smallest blade which could use with conventional scroll saws as well.
The Harthie scroll saw works with commercially available and inexpensive saw blades with a length of 130 ? 160 mm (and shorter), which can be easily inserted and taken out with simple adjustment tools.
What is the maximum depth of the cut? I don't speak German but I saw a "50mm" in one of the videos. With all that open sapace up top, does the saw still only cut to a maximum of 2 inches?
Yes, it is still a scroll saw ;) 50 mm (2 inches) is maximum. The saw could cut to a maximum of more, but the result would not be clean and you would not receive vertical cuts!!
Does the saw have variable speed?
For sure! Due to electronic speed control, the number of revolutions can be regulated infinitely between 400 and 1000 rpm.
Why the heck does it still require a separate tool for reattaching the blade between fret cuts?
Sry, i do not understand the question...
Where is the saw available for sale?
Only in germany for now :( but at the end of the year, our machine will also be available in the U.S. and the rest of the world.
Will your representative be working the show circuit in the US so people can see it in action?
Sry, I can not yet answer...
Bye,
Marco
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That saw would cost around $ 2900.00. It was posted on the UK forum.
Why not using a spiral blade and use booth hands on top of the wood? I would like to see a video, cutting a pattern with a lot of sharp corners, like a clock. All I see now is nothing but round corners.
Show me a cutting of very intricate Christmas ornaments.
If they want to sell the saw in the US or Canada they need an hold down. I do not see how they could put it on the saw.
Like to hear from that company about this.
Mike
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Hi Mike,
challenges accepted, choose the pattern ;)
There is no problem cutting a pattern with a lot of sharp corners
Marco
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Hi Marco,
The video shows only round corners. Show us how the make a 90 degree sharp one?
How about the hold down? How would you fit that on the saw?
How much movement in the middle of the blade? It should not move sideways more than 1/8".
FD Mike
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I'll rephrase the question you didn't understand. I think ti was really more of a comment.
I see in the video that you are required to use a separate tool to tighten the blade after inserting it. Before I bought my saw I tried using one that required a separate tool for blade changes and I hated it. You're tool might be better than that one but I think it would be better to not need a separate tool at all. Put a knob there that you can just turn with your fingers.
That being said, I look forward to seeing Mike's challenge play out. The church windows corners in that other video looked pretty sharp but it was hard to get a good look at them. It will be interesting to see it cut something more delicate.
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So, i know the price for the saw, i can say: it is not a saw for me. It is to expensiv for hobby. But i would like testing it.
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Hi,
here your answers:
The video shows only round corners. Show us how the make a 90 degree sharp one?
I will make a video and show you how to make a 90 degree sharp.
How about the hold down? How would you fit that on the saw?
It is possible and we are working on it. Will show you in a few weeks.
Info: in germany there is no need and no one asked for.
How much movement in the middle of the blade? It should not move sideways more than 1/8".
It depends on what do you want to cut. Thick or thin, wood - metall - etc.
You are able to restrict it between a minimum of zero and 5/8"! But for example, if you just cut laminated wood, you are much faster with a movement of 5/8" and with material with that thickness of 1/8" you will always get approximately verical cuts, right?
I see in the video that you are required to use a separate tool to tighten the blade after inserting it. Before I bought my saw I tried using one that required a separate tool for blade changes and I hated it. You're tool might be better than that one but I think it would be better to not need a separate tool at all. Put a knob there that you can just turn with your fingers.
Its not a problem. You are able to use a simple knob instead of our separate tool for it. But if you want to change the blade, you still will need our tool.
Greetings,
Marco